Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors.
Francisco Mahfuz 0:00
Hi everyone, Francisco here. Just before we get started, I wanted to share something I'm really excited about. I recently launched the story powers bootcamp, a course that teaches you everything you need to know about how to find craft and tell stories that work. But it's not just an online course, because you get personalised feedback from me for all the practical activities in three hours of life coaching to work through any challenges, or focus on specific projects. So it's like if you bought a cookbook, but the chef came along with it. So go to story powers.com and click on Course, all the information you need will be there. So please check it out. And if you love the show, and would like to support us, you can go to buy me a coffee.com forward slash story powers. I drink about five coffees a day, so any support would be much appreciated. All right on with the show.
Welcome to the story powers podcast, the show about the power of stories that people who tell them and why you should be doing it too. I'm your host, keynote speaker and storytelling coach Francisco mahfuz. My guest today is Rob Zubair. Rob has been many things in his life. He was a people and culture leader in the tech world. He's created profitable businesses in three different industries. And he was a very successful DJ and music producer. But now Rob is the founder of growth habit where he helps other purpose driven coaches to make money while making a difference. So now he is. Let me just take a breath here and say this. Now, he's on life coach, but please don't hold that against him. Ladies and gentlemen, Rob Jubair. Rob, welcome to the show.
Robb Gilbear 1:47
Ah, now I know you're like Don't kill me. I'm not a life coach.
Francisco Mahfuz 1:52
Wow, you're kind of a life
Robb Gilbear 1:55
coach. But I am, yeah, well, the funny thing about that is, any label that you put on a coach, no matter if they help you with business results are with your branding, or with your relationships, all that stuff, the good ones, if you peel away the layers, they are also a life coach, because there's no separating the business from your life, the relationships from your life, etc. So
Francisco Mahfuz 2:19
it's interesting to figure out why that has gotten such a bad name. I mean, it's, I think, yes, there's a case of this idea of it being a pretentious thing that you know, who are you to tell other people how to live their life. But perhaps the most pretentious thing is for us to think that we don't need a life. Because if you look at most people's lives, I mean, did all of us we need a lot of help? We don't know what we're doing. So why would you not want a coach? To guess? I guess that's something to do with it.
Robb Gilbear 2:55
I think partially, I think it's anything that gets popular and is obviously it's growing in popularity. And I I love the way you're poking fun, like who are we to think we don't need a coach, right? Historically, there was organised religion, there was stronger community, there's all these other places in ways that people had guidance, mentorship, people to go to and as some of those older models are eroding, people are seeking a North Star help someone to help them untangle their mess. And coaching has become popular, but it's, it's very easy to poke fun at, I see the humour in it. So
Francisco Mahfuz 3:28
I guess that a lot of a lot about coaching that people don't get is how, how it's so difficult to see what's going on from inside the bottle. And I know, I've heard you use this expression, a lot of people have used it. I've used it when I was talking about how it is so much easier for me to help someone come up with their origin story or the signature story. But it's very difficult for me to write my own. And you know, I have done so, but it feels like you're pulling teeth. And it's something that I guess a lot of people just don't realise that you don't need someone to have to be a master at whatever they're trying to coach them in that they should be good enough. And they should have a pretty good grasp of whatever they're talking about. But sometimes just being able to see it from the outside allows you to say, Well, what about that thing? I mean, shouldn't you be paying more attention to that. And that alone is you don't need to be the world's expert. You just need to be able to help. And if you're able to help for the price, you're charging them then that's, I think that's fair.
Robb Gilbear 4:33
I think that's a good way to put it. It's very easy to get lost or own stuff because I'm sure if we started thinking about your world, the children, there's the chores, or you need the car to get the oil changed. There's those two people you haven't replied to from yesterday. There's that podcast you haven't edited yet. Oh, the neighbour asked you something you forgot about this. The last time you spoke to your brother. It was a little annoying that like layers and layers like it is so so noisy and it's very easy to get caught up in all of our stuff. So yeah, this the outsider perspective, someone who's not in the mud between your ears, who can ask some powerful questions, and who can maybe just reflect some things back? Because that's one of the coolest things for me is sometimes I have an inkling I have an inkling Okay, Francisco is good at this Francisco seems to me like I find you really funny, etc. But I don't know, it's one of the most fun parts of being in a coaching conversation with someone is I'm asking questions, and I don't know where it's gonna go in. If I lead with that curiosity, and just trying to play the role of reflection and mirror, the answer that comes out, or the solution that that person pulls out for themselves is almost always better than what I thought it could have been, if I did allow myself to try and think of something. So yeah, it's just it's, it's the same reason why people I think, enjoy psychedelics, or go travelling, just anything gets you out of your mundane routine. Like, I sometimes I take a different way to walk to the office. And I'm like, Wow, I'm in a different city. And it's like, no, I'm just walking a different route that I haven't walked the last 29 times I've walked to my office. So yeah, just juxtaposition In contrast, helps a lot in those positions.
Francisco Mahfuz 6:08
A friend of mine was in Amsterdam. And he made this mistake that that a lot of people have made in Amsterdam, which is he bought some some edibles. So this was a muffin or something that was filled with pot. And you never know how strong these things are. But the mistake that everybody makes is you eat half of it. And then two hours later, nothing has happened. And you think, Okay, that wasn't enough, I need to have some more. So he did that, in what happened to him was the most extreme reaction to that problem that I've ever seen. Because not only he got high, but he remained high for I think two the two or three days, including when he had to fly back from Amsterdam. So he was completely fried. It is at the airport. It is like bug eyed that he's paranoid that his missus is like you need to start looking normal. They're not going to let us born this plane. And he just couldn't. So he boarded the plane and he spent the whole trip like this. And for anyone who's not watching this, sort of leaning back and looking with with a completely horrified look of it like everywhere is everything seems scary. Travelling and psychedelics on their own good ideas to expand your mind together. Perhaps not.
Robb Gilbear 7:28
Maybe not. I like that story a lot. Amsterdam is one of those places that's known for that. And it makes me think of the first time I went to Whistler BC in Canada. And I got there and I was going there for a music thing back when I was DJing. And I got a taxi to take me to the nightclub where I was playing, started chit chatting with the driver. He's asking where it's from. He asked me if I'd ever been before and then he his demeanour changed. He got very serious and he looked at me like a parental look. And says, I'm gonna give you some advice. And I was like, okay, and because the tone shifted, I was like, alright, so I sat up, I'm like, there, this is serious. All of a sudden, he's like, I don't care what you've smoked back home. Take it easy, because the shit out here is way more powerful than anything you've had in Toronto, to have fun, but don't have too much fun. I came here for a couple months to enjoy myself. That was 10 years ago. Now I'm driving you to the party.
Francisco Mahfuz 8:22
Yeah. Yes, that is that is I've seen a lot of people fall for that mistake. And I'm not saying it's the same situation as this guy cuz it had actually probably had something to do with illegal substances. But I went to London thinking I was gonna stay there for six months. And and I left five years later. So just as ballpark but we'd have to do illegal substances. I think that but we don't we talked about more I told the story reminded me of a story I'm not sure I ever told you that I think has some connection to our story together. Because our story I don't think we ever told anyone else about this. But the way you and I got to know each other was that? I think what you had listened to the podcast, and then you Yeah, then you reached out to be a guest on the podcast. And I essentially said no, I because I couldn't quite see the fit there. But what I didn't tell you is that there is a precedent for people that I meet either in Canada or from Canada, that that get rejected and ended up becoming a significant part of my life later because I don't know if you know this, but my my wife now, so I met her in Canada. You know, I was actually with her for a while then I got rejected and then I wasn't with her for many many years. And then eventually we made it work so you know the the initial rejection doesn't actually mean anything in my relationships.
Robb Gilbear 9:55
I don't think any sir I think it's funny because obviously it would be interesting to hear how rejection went in your relationship, but it's all good how it's handled. Because it's not, you know, I reached out and I said, Hey, I enjoyed this podcast, I'd love to be a guest, if that was an option, and you were very polite and being like, I don't see the connection, but you weren't rude. And I still enjoyed the conversation, and I still enjoyed your content. So we continued to kind of follow each other's path and content. So you have relationships, they don't have to have some story tale kind of beginning and ending. And it sounds like it's worked out for your marriage. So.
Francisco Mahfuz 10:27
So what you're saying is that, after I rejected you, you didn't get completely destroyed, could not do anything useful for many years, to the extent that you went a continent away, to escape the horror and the pain of that heartbreak. That's what you're saying didn't happen to you. So maybe our stories are not that similar.
Robb Gilbear 10:54
That's exactly what happened. But in fairness, I think the amount of investment I had in the relationship at that point was very low. Right? It sounds like you had a lot more emotion and feeling and care and love invested in the relationship up to that point where for me, it was you were a stranger whose thing I enjoyed, so I pinged you so different?
Francisco Mahfuz 11:15
Yes. I think that's a fair assessment of the situation. Oh, and this is something else. I don't know if I've ever told you. But one of the things I've started doing on LinkedIn, just made a month and a half two months ago, is that, uh, no, I always used to post telling stories, but the one thing I hadn't really done was also word scats, skits, comedy sketch, sketches, skits. It was a warning.
Robb Gilbear 11:49
You can say skilling or sketches. Both are good, both would mean
Francisco Mahfuz 11:52
okay. Okay, so we'd have a comedy sketches. So there wasn't a hadn't done was comedy sketches with characters. So then a few now, in the character, the original character invented, it wasn't in any way inspired by you. But he was a tiny bit inspired by your your, the headline you use on social media? Because so you talk about purpose driven coaches in purpose is one of the words that is mostly abused, when it comes to when it comes to social media and to coaching and and I created this character Clyde, who is who helps purpose driven Coaches find their purpose? And like, what is the purpose driven? Don't they have purpose already is like, wow, this client has evolved to become everything that hopefully are not. And then I don't want people to be, but I think the very first beginning was just his idea of, of purpose, and how people just tossed that word around without having a great. It's not a word that is not very useful in it is, but it's gotten somewhat abused. But you clearly don't mind it, because you still use it. So why do you think that's still very important to have there, and then after that, I'll go into the story stuff, because otherwise, we will talk about all the random stuff forever.
Robb Gilbear 13:12
I think I'm okay with it. Because I'm not trying to help anyone find their purpose, or trying to like sell purpose or anything like that. So there's a bit of a disconnect with Clyde. And for me, it's just I know that the people who I tend to enjoy working with the most the people who are excited to work with people have the best results that people were, it never feels like I'm working, and they tend to have the best outcomes, or people who self identify that they really want to make some kind of impact, they want to have some kind of purpose. They don't want to just work in corporate, that they feel that they are meant for something bigger. And all that's a mouthful in purpose is just a very easy way to say it. So I'm not going to try to say, you know, figure out your purpose, I'm gonna help you find your purpose. I'm selling purpose, but anyone who identifies with they want to make impact, they want to help people, they want to make some kind of a difference. And all of that purpose for me is currently working as a as a word. Heart lead is another one, I was kind of playing around with like heart led people, people that are more empathetic and follow their hearts. But it's all a bit woowoo. And it's all like if you start you know, double clicking on any of those, then you can in it a rabbit hole of crap. That means nothing.
Francisco Mahfuz 14:19
I think you can say purpose with a straight face. I don't think I could say Heartland with a straight face, even on purpose. Because I always think there's something I always have to say about speaking. And it applies to storytelling as well, which is think you're in a bar, not on Broadway. And I had an interview very recently with Matthew Dix and he calls it the dinner test, which I think goes even further. He says, If you wouldn't say it, or if you wouldn't do it to someone during dinner, then you shouldn't do it on stage when you're telling a story. So you know, the hand gestures, the props, anything that people lots of things that people wouldn't normally do on stage. He says okay, but if you wouldn't do it one person, then then you shouldn't do it on stage. Because then you're still creating an artificial entity that's becoming a performance. Purpose. I think a lot of people would find that word very strange if they're not into this world, by heart, lad. I mean, come on. Who are the clients who so who are the people that you really work with? I'm not sure I understand. Work with Heartland coaches.
Robb Gilbear 15:35
Killing me, it's making me think there's someone I ran into recently who self identifies himself as a micro influencer. And they have it on bios and have it in places and it fucking kills me and me and my partner were laughing about it. Like in what other purposes, the word micro good. And we were thinking, micro manager, micro penis, like, there's no other place where
Francisco Mahfuz 15:55
you can buy like how you went from micromanagement to micro penis?
Robb Gilbear 16:00
Well, we're trying to think like, what are the other contexts that the word micro is used frequently, and those are the two that came to mind right away. So the fact that someone would identify themselves and label themselves as I'm a micro influencer, it just seems so weird. And it made me laugh as much as this heart led thing is making you laugh.
Francisco Mahfuz 16:16
There is a context where the word micro could be used. It's not, it's not used in that context. But it could, which is, the difference between when someone is telling is telling a story, what they should focus on. And the mistake a lot of people make is they focus on the macro, they focus on the big thing happening, or, or even worse, they focus on a timeline of things happening, which is, which is okay, you know, you can explain what happened and how you became a coach or whatever your story you're trying to tell, and say, you know, I was in corporate America, and then this happened, and that happened, whatever. But that is not interesting. So in that context, what is interesting is, is the micro stuff is on this day, I enter got home, and I was so frustrated that I shouted at my kid, and then my wife got angry with me. So that in so in that context, that word could be used a minute, but it's not used. And now that you've you said, now that you brought micro opinions into the equation, I will never be able to white, see that word or hear that word without thinking about that? So so so thank you, Rob, you've, you've now given me something that I will carry with me for a very long time. That's my
Robb Gilbear 17:29
gift to you.
Francisco Mahfuz 17:30
Yes, yes. Okay. And this is our gift to the audience. All right. So I said earlier, when you originally reached out, I was struggling to see the feet at the time, I didn't see the fate of how what you were doing had to do with stories. And I think you told me something like, you know that you use that a lot with clients, and it is something I will want to talk to you about before we done. But actually what occurred to me over the last week or so, when I was doing the research that I normally do, and after I took part in that in that webinar that you ran, is that the most interesting use of story that I think you you make is not in the work I do with clients, or at least I guess not because I'm not a client. I don't know the work you do with clients Exactly. But I think it might be in the way you attract clients. And party, I'm particularly thinking here about social media content, or at least the content that I'm familiar with, which is LinkedIn. So can you just describe a bit what is your approach for for having people approach for getting inbound leads for people looking for you, instead of you having to do outbound and get in touch with them yourself.
Robb Gilbear 18:40
So there's a lot of the words know, like, and trust or use too much in marketing all the time you hear people need to know, like, and trust, you know, like and trust you. And I was thinking about it and realise that that it's backwards, because the focus is focused externally too much, and trying to make other people know, like and trust you. And then it becomes a bit of a performance like you're talking about, and this is where my coaching comes into play with myself. And do you know, like and trust yourself? Do you like who you are? When you look in the mirror? Do you like you see, do you know your strengths, your values? What really is important to you? Do you trust yourself? If you make yourself a promise, will you keep that promise? Or are you always just saying oh, I'll get to that this weekend, and then you never do and that's really key and then once you have that dialled in, then it's really easy to show more of yourself to the world. And I think that's where I really intentionally use stories is the limits around what I share to the world and what I won't share. There's there's not much like my children's names my children's faces, because I want them to have a bit of a private life because I encountered some weird things before when they were younger when I was doing well with music where we'd be at the grocery store and a stranger would walk up to us and start talking. And like they knew me and weirded out the kid so I want to give them privacy. Short of that. There are a few things that I'm not willing to share publicly. And I share a lot of myself, because I know who I am. I like who I am. And I trust myself. And then I very intentionally am sharing stories about my past about my struggles about things I'm experiencing what things I know that are relatable, specifically, because I'm really clear on who I'm speaking to, we were joking earlier about purpose, lead, or heart lead, and we're having all those laughs. But I know that the people that I meant to serve the people who are most excited to work with me, the people who I can help the most are people who have that kind of empathy, who have experienced difficulty, who are a creative person who may be sometimes struggles with having too many ideas, who believes there's more to the world, and who's been through some shit and kind of back. So when I'm sharing myself sharing my struggles, sharing my stories, it's intentional way so that I can connect with the people that I want to serve.
Francisco Mahfuz 20:51
I think that that word is a very important one, that connection. Because this is something that a lot of people don't get, when it comes to not only story, but just most other forms of communication is that for reasons that I'm not sure I'm qualified to, to talk about, but most human beings are looking to hear or to feel from from anyone else around them. The four most important words in the English language, you are not alone. That's what we want from other people. So when we sing people communicating, we're looking for validation we're looking for, for proof that whatever we're going through, or whatever hangups we have, or whatever things, we struggle with ourselves, other people feel the same, which is, that is the basic reason why sharing, not necessarily failures, but sharing things you struggle with or sharing your challenges. That's what people resonate with. Because even though they can identify themselves with the success, and I always say that you have to be a bit of a knob to hear someone describing their sex, I go, Ah, he's a successful guy just like me. But is that that's not the the point. You know, you don't have a hang up about that you're not looking for validation about your success. Usually, you're looking for validation about the things you struggle with. So if what all people do is share where they're great at, yeah, maybe that can inspire some people. But inspiration and connection are very, very different things.
Robb Gilbear 22:36
They really are, I love the way that you're you frame that I'm not alone. Because what happens when you're intentional with your messaging with your stories with the things that you're putting out there is that it makes people feel seen. And it makes people feel seen and heard. In a world where they feel sometimes like they are number like they don't matter, like they don't have a voice. So that you are not alone is such a powerful, powerful connection. And it makes a really big difference that it cuts through all the clutter, especially in a world where people are just sharing highlight reels, and people are just sharing their wins. And I'm speaking at this other conference, and I just closed another deal. And look at me go look at me go. So when you if you're
Francisco Mahfuz 23:15
walking, I woke up, I woke up and look at how awful I look. I just woke up like this.
Robb Gilbear 23:24
With the perfect hair. Yes.
Francisco Mahfuz 23:26
I mean, that is true in my case. I mean, I generally wake up like this. But you know, for other people.
Robb Gilbear 23:34
I think it goes to something that I've heard you speak about a bunch which is relatability. And the importance of making something relatable in whatever it is that you're sharing in your messaging in your stories. And definitely I've spoken to this to my clients about and it was cool when I heard you say it in your own way was like, oh, Francisco sees it the same way. Because we think it has to be some big mega production. People think like, Oh, if I'm putting content out if I'm sharing stuff, I'm putting my message out there that it has to be so on inspiring, unbelievable, like a one in a million story. But the stuff that makes a difference is the relatable stuff like the i My children have chickenpox right now. It's been crazy the last few weeks, I shared that this week. I just put it out there that this is a kind of a challenge we're facing as a family and I made a tie that back to, you know, being able to abstain from short term rewards for long term gains. But the amount of messages the amount of inbox messages that some people who have been in conversation with what kind of business stuff are reaching out to me now there's this connection we have as parents because they have parents, and they would hate to see the children sick and the last time their son had a fever. It was really upsetting and huge connection.
Francisco Mahfuz 24:36
I didn't actually know that people in real life did what they do in that Friends episode, where you just tie oven mitts to your hands to stop from scratching. I thought this was just a friend's thing. I didn't I mean, I don't remember if I had chickenpox, but no one did that to me if I if I had chickenpox, so I'm well happy that your children have chickenpox and I'm really sorry for them. But I am happy Good to find out that they haven't met thing is not just a sitcom trope.
Robb Gilbear 25:05
It's not just a sitcom trope, and one of the comments actually is calling who's this really funny coach from the UK? He commented that when he was a kid, and he was put to bed with mitts on, he lied to his parents is like, yes, of course, I kept them on all night where he was like, No, I took them off and scratched like crazy. So it apparently cross cultural cross countries, it's not just a sitcom thing. It's something that's used across around the world, at least in some of the other, you know, g8, or G 10. Countries.
Francisco Mahfuz 25:34
In the other thing, I think what you said there is very important, and it's a point I try to hammer as much as I can, which is that it's not really about what's actually happening in the story, as long as there is enough in there that people can relate to. So it doesn't matter if you have so I have two children like you, they have not had chickenpox, right, I don't remember if I had chickenpox, so I cannot relate to that. But I can relate to sick children in you don't even have have to have had sick children, you have troubles with your children, there are things that are happening to your children that make you concern that make you worried, or it can even be simpler than that. It can just be I have this challenge in my hands. It's making me frustrated, and I don't know how to deal with it. And I'm sure there's a lot of people that have read that and felt for you and not just pretended to feel for you. I'm sure there's plenty of those as well. But but some of the general if you are crap, I mean, this this sounds like a real big problem. And they might not be parents, they might not have anything that they can genuinely like, oh, no, yes, dad have lived. No, I just don't know how that feels. That's it, I know how that feels. That's really all you're looking for, when you tell your story to make it relatable. Now, having said that, if you can make it specifically relatable, that is more powerful. I think that's something that you talk about as well, with this idea of, of sharing stories about trigger events.
Robb Gilbear 27:09
So I talk a lot about being really clear on who you're meant to serve. I call them dream clients. Doug, who I did that workshop with last week, he calls them your target clients. So we're right now with the stuff I'm doing with him, we're calling them target dream clients, ideal client, whatever you thought
Francisco Mahfuz 27:22
target dream clients might be I think too many too many chefs in that kitchen. Just choose. But get oh, you can just go for your ideal clients,
Robb Gilbear 27:32
your ideal. I don't like that I see so many people use ideal clients. So the clients you want the people you're meant to serve, we can go on either way, whatever label you want to use, we're getting really clear on who those people are. What are in not demographics psychographics? What are their values? What do they think of the world? Do they prioritise efficiency or creativity? You know, and then what are the things is what is the trigger event? What would make them want to hire you? What is the change or event in their life? What is the crap I've had enough, I'm going to ask for help and knowing what those events are. Because then back to your point, if you can get specific if you can be sharing stories that tie to those that illustrate that you understand them in that moment of frustration that you've also been there, that you've been in that state that you can make that connection to those moments, then again, it's it's powerful. And when they're trying to figure out like, Who do I hire to help me in my stories? Who do I hire to coach me? What service do I reach out to, there's a connection with you, and it makes a big difference, you can actually lead people to, to the steps to because there's a most of the market is not looking to buy right now most people aren't scrolling LinkedIn currently, like I want to buy something today. Some people are some people are very aware of their challenge, and very well, they want a solution. Most art. So if your content, your stories, your ideas can help lead the breadcrumb trail in illuminate and teach them some things and show them some things. So when they get to that trigger point, and you're also maybe the guide to that trigger point, then they're going to engage you more and more likely to because you play that role in helping them you've built that rapport and relationship with them along the path.
Francisco Mahfuz 29:11
So the idea with the sort of bread crumbs, which is also something else I've heard you talk about, but the idea there, I guess would be you trying to share an experience of you, because the assumption in an error in your case, it is true. But the assumption here is that you are where your idea or your dream client or your target client would want to be. So what you're trying to do is you're trying to share stories from every step of that journey, in the hopes that someone is going to look at it and go, This is me that you're just describing what I'm going through or you're just describing what I've just gone through and that will make them go okay, well, this person is on the same path as me, which means that arguably they know how to get to to that destination over there. The other thing that I like about about your approach, and it's something that I tried to convince people of on a regular basis is, the stuff you share is not usually anything other than ordinary. And I use this not in a derogatory term, derogatory sense. So can you I mean, I have some examples here, but but can you just for the top of your head, just mention some of the types of personal stories that you've or even professional stories that you've shared over the last over the last few months. So people have an idea what I'm talking about,
Robb Gilbear 30:34
one of the my first kiss my first French kiss, I wrote a story about my first French kiss and the power of having that person like coach and mentor me into becoming a better kisser. And how much frustration in challenges and mistakes that person helped me avoid by being literally like coaching me into being a better kisser going on a French war revolution toward like, a something my partner and I did when we were in Paris, I'm really interested in history. She's not I paid for us to go, she tagged along, and then just highlighting what she remembered and what I remembered. But there was a lesson there, because one of the things in the revolution that made a difference was access to the printing press and the explosion of newspapers. And that's kind of what's going on on LinkedIn right now. Yeah, there's it doesn't just, they don't have to be big moments. So two things that came to mind right away, I'm sure if I sat stare at the ceiling for a moment, I can think of some other ones.
Francisco Mahfuz 31:27
There was one which you have on on YouTube, which is it has more views than anything else you've probably ever done. I think it's pushing him 70,000 views on LinkedIn. Now, you did something very smart. There, you put the word manifestation in the title, and manifestation. If you look at the list of other videos that show up with that word, a lot of them have a lot of views. It is this story about how you you wanted an idea that you had an idea for a job, and this is your ideal job. And then you saw the ad quit your your current job, without having gotten the dream job in through a weird set of circumstances, you ended up getting it. And I watched that. And I was thinking, was that the job that you only lasted a few months and then quit to do what you do now? Or no was that earlier in your
Robb Gilbear 32:17
career, that's that story happened in like 2006 or seven, I was there. I was at that job for three years. And then I left that job to go back to music for a bit and to go run a business with my partner. So I was at that job for three years. Yeah. And it wasn't even just that I hadn't got the job yet, Francisco. I submitted my resignation letter at 9am. That morning, I applied to that job at lunch. I hadn't applied yet. That's how certain I was I resigned before I had even applied
Francisco Mahfuz 32:51
i Yes, you can think of that as manifestation. We can also think of that as the one case in about 1000 or a million where that has actually worked. And this is now proof that destiny that the universe will help you if you already, you know, desire it enough. Whereas there is so many people now that are probably going, Yeah, my wife left me after that, because I applied for the job. And I never heard back and they told me the salary, the salary was half of my current job. So
Robb Gilbear 33:23
Well, exactly. I think the point you're bringing is that I wouldn't prescribe it. I'm not saying go do that. It's crazy. Like me. Oh, that's you. I sound like I'm sure some
Francisco Mahfuz 33:30
people are looking at that and going, This is it. This is if I only want it enough, I will manifest it in my real life.
Robb Gilbear 33:40
But I guess for me is that when I get to that point of conviction, like when I know something to be true, I've created it multiple times I've did it with quitting my job this time to build my successful business. I've done it with finding money on the ground. And it's a woowoo thing like this, we can go into the whole heart lead, like go off the rails where you're just gonna be like, uncomfortable because it sounds so ridiculous. I have done it. I have experienced it in my life. And that one is the most extreme. I can't think of a more extreme example than that. One in 1,000,001 and 100 million. Absolutely. It's funny to think that you're right, that the fact that someone watched that got inspired, quit their job. Now their wife has left them and they're you know, sitting in a desolate hotel room that they can barely afford. How many lives
Francisco Mahfuz 34:26
have you ruined with that story? Rob? Well, I think you know, I'm not the type of person I think that there's a lot of things that are hard to explain in life. I think a lot of things are are easy to explain. When we turn them upside down when in look them look at them from different angles, because one of the things about this whole manifestation thing is that it's now almost never a story about I sat in my living room. I really wanted this in then He just happened. It's all I really wanted this. So I applied for the job. You know, in that interview, you probably tried everything you could have when it was going wrong. And you accidentally found that you and the person are from the same small town in Canada. But you were there trying, and you're someone who had a certain set of skills, and you're, you're enthusiastic about it. So. So there's, there's a lot going for you other than just the universe. And I think I understand that to be a case of focus sometimes. Because a lot of people say, Oh, how? Because not that I'm massively successful or anything, but there's a lot of stuff I'm doing at the moment. And you're like, how did you manage to start a podcast with a baby in the house and do all this other stuff you're doing at the same time, it's like, I just decided that I was going to do it, and I put my spare time into doing it. You know, I was about to find the time, well, I don't have Facebook, I don't have Instagram, I at the time, I didn't spend as much time on LinkedIn as I do now. And I didn't watch TV in and I stayed up until midnight most nights, you know, you can find two or three hours in your day if those things are happening. So it's not, did I manage to manifest it when I decided I wanted to do it. And then I did a whole bunch of stuff to make it happen. But you have to want it in the first place. If you don't want it, then that is probably going to happen on its own accord.
Robb Gilbear 36:27
Because it what you're talking about is a level of commitment, a level of commitment to it. So is that no matter what the obstacles are there, you're going to figure it out. Because you just listed a bunch of things that would have stopped other people. They're like, you know, I'm busy. And then there's the small child and you make a bunch of excuses. And they're good excuses that most people would say like yeah, that's a that's not an excuse. That's a valid reason. But when you get so focused, and you are yes, I am definitely going to do this, then you figure out a way. And I think that's if I go back to my manifestation story that I think that was a big part of it, too, is that when I had burned my boats, I had no options, I had to figure out a way to do it. And I was really hyper focused on it. So I had to find a way like I had, I had no choice. But with everything. It does require work, it requires focus. Before I was able to quit my last cushy director level job to do what I'm doing now. I was getting up at 545 or six every day I was working over lunch, I was working most evenings I had blocked out just like you explained like people, like if people saw how much time they were wasting on Instagram or Facebook, and then spent half of that time on something else, then yeah, they could have the things that you have. So I think that's a really great example Francisco.
Francisco Mahfuz 37:37
Well, thank you. Yeah, this is something that people don't realise, you know, how much time we spend doing any of the things we're spending in ambiguities that as anyone else, you know, now, the thing that the thing that I tend to fool myself about was how much time I spent with with the podcast, for example. And then at one point, I realised, okay, well hold on, if I put the research in, and then recording and then the editing and then you know, whatever I have to do to promote it. Like you can easily spend, like I can easily spend four hours per episode easily if it's an easy episode to edit that, you know, so if you don't think it's that case, it could be more it has been more and then you do that and then whatever else you do on social media, and I'm just talking about useful things. I'm not even talking about just browsing and go who I want to be inspired and entertained. I'm pretending I'm not just keeping my brain tumbling over without giving it any real making it work at all. But yeah, I don't I think that that's it this is why why stories like that I think people can sometimes take the wrong lesson from it because because there's a lot of things in that story that suggest that that it was you with a very large heaping of luck in focus and knowing what you want but a lot of people can look at they can watch that story and go if I only wanted enough that is the secret I mean literally is the secret
Robb Gilbear 39:09
is a big part of that that's missed this idea that you can just will it without doing it willing without making changes willing without having focus without making effort. Yeah, you the idea that I'm going to sit here and just think about better six pack bigger biceps, but not go to the gym, not change my diet, not change anything else and not, you know, surround myself with other people who are dedicated and focused like that. So when I am tired because I didn't sleep well because the baby woke me up because I ended up having that piece of cake than I justified like I'm going to sleep in today. No, it's very intentional.
Francisco Mahfuz 39:41
And the other thing about this the manifestation type of ideas is that they are they are ignoring something for each hour. Forget the scientific name now, the reticular whatever. There is something in the brain where if you're thinking about something constantly, you tend to see it more often. You know the example everybody uses this if I if you're looking for new, other new shoes, new trainers or whatever, anyone them from other editors, all of a sudden you've seen yet the shoes everywhere it is because your brain now realised, okay, well this is important I'm going to keep, I'm going to open the filter up and not just filter this out as noise because clearly this is something you're interested in. And I noticed that with myself and with other people when it comes to stories, which is this was never something you valued. Typically at least as a as something you could use yourself. In, then they work with me or they work with someone that does does does the stuff. Or they just have an epiphany, in all of a sudden they're seeing stories everywhere. They're looking at posts, they like on social media go oh, this someone is actually telling a story here. Or they they're talking to their friends. And they go like, Oh, yesterday, this was oh, yeah, just tell me a story now. But you never realised what it was into your brain just wasn't paying attention to it that way. So it's not as if it wasn't there before. You just weren't paying enough attention.
Robb Gilbear 41:03
Yeah, I think you're totally right. The same thing happens with cars, you're talking about trainers, we bought a new car and I hadn't noticed that kind of Toyota car on the road before the moment we bought it is every time I leave the house, I see dozens of them. Because now what I'm focused on is different. I think the the story is one is is interesting to realise that it's is there because gossip what is gossip and someone telling a story. You know, the business books that do the best tend to be the ones that interwove stories into them instead of it being like, here's the 15 things you need to do to improve your business now. And then when you realise that yeah, it is. That's what people talk about when people share. Those are the news pieces that do the best. They often the post on social media that gets shared more the adverts like those adverts that people were like when people That's crazy to me that people take commercials and then share it like this is a beautiful commercial. It's a story with a logo at the end. It's the stories, it's always stories,
Francisco Mahfuz 41:57
there's something you said in that presentation I watched, which is something clients tell your prospective clients tell you something along the lines of you've read my mind, or you know, stop reading my mind. That is something that is very powerful. And it doesn't need to be stories, you can just say the things. But I think we tend to have our barriers up a little bit. When it's someone's opinion. If you say, Oh, this is what is happening, you know, this is what is happening in your life and you're worried about this and you are the easiest one is like, you know, who are you to tell me what I'm thinking? And even if you are thinking that the barriers go up, you're like you don't this is your opinion. Right? And you don't, there is no authority there. Whereas if you saying this is what I'm going through, I'll go okay. Oh, that sounds pretty familiar. Oh, Jesus, this is too familiar. You're reading my mind, Rob.
Robb Gilbear 42:54
I love the way you're saying that. Because the barriers up thing I imagined myself going into like a palm reader or something. And if I wasn't going to a palm reader, then I'm super guarded. And what is this person saying? And clearly there's my BS filter is on maximum. So to have someone who's just saying, you're thinking this, you're feeling this, this is what's happening. Versus Yeah, it's a the stories are a Trojan horse. People will that back to the commercial, I was just joking. Like, I can't believe that someone has spent millions of dollars to craft an advert that then people are intentionally watching people are searching for on YouTube and then sharing on social media. That's the perfect Trojan horse. And it works the same way here with making clients feel seen and heard is that you use a story to make a connection, and then they relate to it. And then they see themselves in the story and they relate to the story. I assume
Francisco Mahfuz 43:43
that everybody knows what a Trojan horses, but I don't actually assume that everybody knows what the original stories because you know, Trojan is is a condom brand. I think there was a big virus as well that people got through porn called Trojan horse. But I don't think a lot of people know the original story. And if I recall correctly, it was a war between it was Partha, in essence, maybe, but it was a Greek war. And then we're a Greece and someone else. And then the the Greeks creepy, you know, made this enormous wooden horse as a present to what the Trojans, obviously. And they gave this horse as a present and inside the horse, there were a whole bunch of Greek warriors. And that's the idea of the of the Trojan horse. It's actually in Portuguese, we have an idiom, which you call something a Greek gift. Oh, yeah. Which is, which is the same sort of idea. I hadn't heard that metaphor be used for stories, but it's a perfect example. Because stories have this thing where they're not a push strategy. There are poll strategies. You're not pushing information, our opinions out to people, if you're not being pushy with them either. You put it in for the stuff out there, and it's pulling them in and so there is there is a million in there, there is a lesson you're trying to impart. But you're not saying here is, this is what I'm trying to say, black, you're going, Oh, this thing happened. And I think the lesson there is, yeah, sometimes you will reinforce what the messages, but you still hopefully letting the story do most of the heavy lifting. And you're just hoping that the meaning is all those sneaky, you know, naked warriors coming in to stab you to death. Now that metaphor, perhaps is not what we should explain in great detail if we try this in a positive way.
Robb Gilbear 45:33
Yeah, I think the the metaphor works great, as long as you stop at the fact that they woke up in the middle of the night, snuck out of the horse and killed everyone in their sleep. So yes,
Francisco Mahfuz 45:43
yes, I don't think you want to say our stories are like a beautiful Trojan horse. And before you know it, you're dead in your sleep. That might not be the meaning we're trying to borrow from this. Right. So we're coming to the end of the time that I knew we had today. I just I did want to touch on how much do you use stories in your client work? Because we talked mostly about how you use it to attract clients. But when you're speaking to people, do you make a point of using the same types of stories to get the same types of lessons? Did you work a lot on sort of, you know, the stories they tell themselves? So how does that work normally with you?
Robb Gilbear 46:26
So yes, to both, you know, so definitely the stories they tell themselves? Because the first part of everything I do with everyone is that belief that you can do it that you're worthy of it that the confidence of in getting that clarity, and a big part of that is what are the stories that you're telling yourself, like who are you, and then we were going for going full circle here, because you started earlier talking about not being able to read the label from inside the jar. So then we help them identify, you know, their journey, their story, their lessons, their learnings, so that they can really embrace their unique power, their unique gifts, that makes them who they are. And a lot of that is seeped in story. And then the other part, it definitely when the first course I made the first, every module had a story, there's like, here's some theory. Here's some examples. Here's some worksheets, but every single module had a story. And when I'm creating stuff now, maybe not every module has a story, but at least have some good analogies. Some other which are still kind of a story, because it does allow people to, again, connect to it relate to it, it's one thing for me to say it, but if I can give you an example of a past client who applied this did this. And this is the outcome, or I lived through this or related to some other aspect of your life where you can use that framework to decode it to digest it, then stories are incredibly powerful.
Francisco Mahfuz 47:45
Something is interesting that that not many people know how to do. But it can be used as well, if you're thinking of a training course, if you're thinking of content, which is not only the stories as part of the content that you're providing, but also stories as a structure. And this is this is probably the only point I think, where things like the, like the hero's journey, or the sort of longer type of story templates can be used effectively, because they're very complicated to use if you're just trying to tell a story, because it's like, Oh, what is the call to adventure now had the guide has to come in, and now it's a bit of despair, you know, meets the god, there's whatever he gets very, it gets very complicated. But there's a lot of things that are very interesting and easy to relate to, if you're trying to trace sort of the journey, that someone that becomes either culture, whatever you're trying to become, there are points in there that are very easy to, to identify. So you know, part of the part of it could just be this is this is the ordinary world. So this is the beginning, this is the ordinary world. And then there is a core, something's changing, there's a call to adventure that you refuse, and you have reasons to be refusing that call. But then there comes a guy that the guy is going to help you do this. And these are the challenges you're going to face. And then if you're successful, this is what's going to happen. And now you can go back to the what used to be the ordinary world, but now you're changed. And now you can bring that knowledge back and help other people. So so he works perfectly if you tried to get someone from pain to power, which is the summary of the hero's journey, so that there's a lot of those points that can be used well in you can do that in have the stories within because then using your own stories or client stories to just make that a lot more, a lot more concrete and automatic with more examples and more more alive and not just a whole bunch of theory. So yeah, the useful thing
Robb Gilbear 49:42
Yeah, like the using the hero's journey roadmap because I was talking earlier about you know, the the breadcrumbs or the trail to lead people down the path, then yeah, if you just want to overlay that on the stories journey as you just so eloquently did is a really great way to help people go through the steps that they need to go through so that they can end up in power so that they can then be a guide for someone else, or then can, you know, spread the gospel to new people.
Francisco Mahfuz 50:05
And this is something I got from JJ Peterson from story brand. And I keep coming back to it because such a powerful idea, and one I think you like is he talks about how most stories have essentially four characters, you have the hero, you have the villain, you have the guide, and you have the victim. And he says, Well, no one wants to be the victim, and no one should be should be happy with staying in that particular role. Then he says that the major difference between a hero and a villain is that both of them have suffered pain in their past, the hero wants redemption, the villain wants to avenge that pain. And in the guide is obviously the one that is not focused in being the hero but helping the hero along. And he said that the one thing he tries to keep in his mind at all times is, don't try to be the object, don't be the villain or the victim, don't try to be the hero just be the guide. Like that's your job. It's not to be successful. It's not whatever it's just to help other people along. If you keep thinking that way, you end up being the hero to a lot of people, but but it's just a more, I think he just forces you into into any immediate attitude that you wouldn't necessarily have. If you're concerned about being the one that achieved something.
Robb Gilbear 51:22
I like that a lot, because we're talking earlier about connecting to clients and being relatable. And the way I use stories to really make that powerful connection with people. If I'm telling stories where I'm always the hero, then there's a bit of air of BS at some point, were joking earlier about how great and perfect I am. But I want them to feel that they are the hero more than the feel that they can be the hero, I want them to go on their own journey. So it the guide role is best because the people you're speaking to your dream clients, you want them to be the hero and you want to lead them on their own journey.
Francisco Mahfuz 51:56
Yeah, and there's a trick here that you should feel free to copy it, which is you can get over the Bs and the arrogance that comes with telling stories where you're the hero very easily. And the way you do that is by making yourself the hapless hero. So you will achieve the things you've achieved. But you were a complete mass throughout and you have no idea what you're doing. And you're struggling. And then someone which could be some person that helped you the career could be your wife could be a friend just sort of went in a Rob, what are you doing, man? This isn't this is not what you want. There you go. Ah, now I realise what I should be doing. So you still achieving all those things. And you can still saying I've done that. But now you've given people a tonne of things to relate to. And they can go Oh, yeah, that's me. That's exactly how where I was where I am. But you still being able to do that while telling people. I know what I'm doing because I've already done it. But the more hapless you sound, the more people can connect with you, if they are in that place.
Robb Gilbear 53:04
I like that because it's back to where we're talking earlier, instead of just sharing highlight reels and look how perfect I am it. It's showing the mistakes that you were a mess and that you didn't have it together. And if you weave that story well, because I've used it in a few posts, then people see like, oh, I can relate to that. But also that he got a guide, and they helped him. Maybe I need a guide. And maybe maybe Rob can be my guide. Maybe Francisco can be my guide. Yeah.
Francisco Mahfuz 53:28
Yeah, very much. So it's it. You want to you want the elements to be even the elements to be in place. But but that's when that that's one that helps a lot is this realisation that, that not only I've been very war, but also I got help. It's not by my own efforts. I just snapped everything snapped into place. I mean, that would be a terrible way to do that story is like, Oh, yes, it's just like me. Oh, he's sorted it all by himself. Oh, great. Thanks, Rob. So don't use that if anyone is out there, like it and I've said this to a friend, I was helping him prepare a speech for computation. And, and he did in the speech, he falls on the water, and then he thinks he's going to drown and then eventually he doesn't and manage to make his way back to the boat where his friends are. And I said to him, if no one needs to help you for you to get out of there, then you could always have done it by yourself. Which means that you are never in any actual danger. There is no challenge for it overcome because it was all up to you anyway. You can just get over that by having someone who's not he's not a person be your guide so maybe a seagull stopped near you and because you're so I don't know you're delirious because of your of exhaustion that you're trying to stay above the water. You believe the seagull was talking to you. And you thought that sounded a bit demented. But you know, you've done a lot of drugs in your past who knows right? If that is just the thing, the external thing that lets you find your way, it could be a dream. And people do these movies all the time and they haven't been they wake up and they remembered something important that turns the tide. But it has to be something that needs to feel that, that it wasn't just you something caused the dream something you know this The Seagull or whatever, because otherwise you writing it, people will get the message out of it that I'm just like this guy and like this guy, I will make it on my own.
Robb Gilbear 55:29
I'll figure it out. I don't need help. Yeah. The provider continues. I don't need help. We're good.
Francisco Mahfuz 55:34
Yes. All right. So this Bravada will not continue now because we ever carry out time. But if people want to find you, what's the best place to go to do that?
Robb Gilbear 55:44
The place I am most active. The community where I spend the most time is LinkedIn is the place that I hang out the most. I also am on Instagram, those would be the two best places and yeah, it's our OB gi l B E A R. Now I'll
Francisco Mahfuz 56:00
put that on the on the show notes. And I don't think I've told you this before, but I spent a lot of time reading your name wrong. I didn't know it was pronounced Jubair. So to me it was always Rob. When we did I think it was I thought it was like Rob Guile beer or something like that very, very different. He definitely wasn't Jubair I hadn't realised it was the fridge thing. So yeah, guy will be here. Yeah, I'm glad I figured that out before we did this.
Robb Gilbear 56:34
Amazing. Well, thank you for having me.
Francisco Mahfuz 56:37
Thank you to Matt I hope I hope given the the long wait or the time that we've talked about during this this as this has been watching what you expected I definitely got we we definitely had a lot of fun. We might have even made some sense in between all the all the other nonsense.
Robb Gilbear 56:54
Maybe I think if if there's one thing the big takeaways if you had said yes, when I first messaged you, we might have had an okay conversation, it might get a bit more business focused. There's no way it would have been this enjoyable. There's no way there would have been this many laughs there's no way that it would have been this kind of banter so it was absolutely worth the weight. And
Francisco Mahfuz 57:12
I don't think I would have gotten enough to justify titling the episode heartlight stories about micro decks with Rob show bear. Which might or might not be the episode. Alright. Thanks again for the time eight. Alright, everyone. Thanks for tuning in. Take care of yourselves. And until next time.
I hope you enjoyed the show. And if you did, I'd love for you to subscribe and leave us a review or a rating on the Apple podcasts app. It's very easy. You open the app and find this show and scroll down a little and when you see the stars tab. I'd really appreciate it and it does help other people find us. And if you'd like to get in touch or find out more about what I do, reach out to me on LinkedIn or visit my website story powers.com
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